Author Topic: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)  (Read 4744 times)

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Offline strawberry fist

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Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« on: April 11, 2017, 07:07:57 AM »
I've recently read the flight of the Eisenstein and have been inspired to make a Death Guard army, out of the loyalist chapters I thought iron hands would make the best choice due to feel no pain, shows death guard resilience. Aiming for 1500/1850 points.

Chaplain
Traitors Bane, relic blade, artificer armour

Tactical 9 man
Melta, rhino

Tactical 9 man
Melta, rhino

Tactical 5 man
Lascannon

Bike squad 3 man
2 grav gun

Dev. Centurions
All grav, omnisocpe on sgt.

Aux.
Skyhammer
Assault marine 5 man
Jump packs

Assault marine 5 man
Jump packs

Dev squad 5 man
D.pod 4 grav canon

Dev squad 5 man
D.pod multi melta

Or for aux
10th co.
3 units of 5 scouts with camo and sniper
And
Raptor wing
2 stormtalons with skyhammer missiles
Land speeder with 2 heavy bolters

Any and all advice please :D


Offline strawberry fist

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 08:57:29 AM »
Demi co. Comes to 935
Raptor wing- 280
Scouts - 210
Skyhammer- 560

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 10:47:44 AM »
So if Death Guard drew you into making an army, why aren't you making a Death Guard army?  Nothing in this list says 'Death Guard' who are notoriously a very walking heavy army utilizing bigger Infantry types.  Centurions are there, but that's the only thing that Death Guard would actually bother with traditionally.  Where's your Terminators, who Death Guard are VERY fond of.

Death Guard out of CSM are in a good place right now, finally able to represent that Heavy Infantry group with natural FNP and Relentless on every Infantry model, making Havocs and even basic squads viable, with Plagues being an afterthought instead of the bread and butter.  You can make a good army out of models that don't look all sickly and paint them up as Loyalist Death Guard using traitor rules.

Or, you can actually use 30k concepts.  You can't legally use a 30k army in 40k, and usually you wouldn't want to, but you can take some heavy inspiration from how an army would be built where Loyalist Death Guard are actually a thing.  For instance, the Death Guard have a Rite of War specific to them, intended to be fluffy and restrictive.  It says that an army may only choose one Fast Attack slot.  So, some interpretation just means that you severely limit your FA ideas.  No flyers and limit your quicker vehicles.  Big lumbering things like Vindicators have more of a place than Bikes would, but Demi-Company demands are a thing you might have to break fluff for.  Other restrictions in that Rite of War are no Running and no Deep Strike, and while the running is whatever, no Deep Strike should be followed if you were trying to emulate what they do in 30k.  Skyhammer is absolutely not a Death Guard style.  Land Speeders are not Death Guard style. 

But with 30k rules spilling over in some cases, Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminators would be right at home.  Dropping the Demi-Company in favor of a CAD and enforcing some of these restrictions yourself means you could make something very fluffy for pre-Heresy Death Guard and at some point play 30k with most of the same army.  Cataphractii are huge in Death Guard in particular with the CSM Character Typhus, Typhon back in Heresy days, having what might be the first example of the armor shown in the game. 

While there's not a whole lot wrong with the army you put forward, it would prolly do okay on the table, it just doesn't look like a Death Guard army to me.  80% of an actual Death Guard army is available in 40k, and I'd try to use as much of it as possible.  They make some really cool armies on the table.

Offline strawberry fist

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 03:13:19 PM »
If I were to lean towards chaos would this be a good list? (1500)

Chaos warband-
Lord, terminator, combi melta, sigil of couruption, power fist, mark of nurgle
Terminators 4 man, mark of nurgle, power fist, mark of nurgle
Raptors mark of nurgle
Havoc autocannon mark of nurgle
Marines mark of nurgle, melta gun, rhino, heavy bolter
Marines mark of nurgle, melta gun, rhino, heavy bolter

Fist of the gods
Warpsmith
Autocannon preadator, Lascannon sponson
Autocannon preadator, Lascannon sponson
Vindicator

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 09:54:00 PM »
Yes, that would be a good list.  Only, and I do mean only, issue in the list is the Sigil on the Lord.  Not needed since the Terminator armor gives a 5++.  Use the points for Dozer Blades or a Seige Shield on the Vindicator and you're golden.

Offline strawberry fist

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 05:43:36 AM »
Managed to use the chaos list a couple of times against Ultramarines and lost both times. Was playing maelstrom objectives and lost 10-9 and 14-12. But at the end of the game I was always severely outnumbered with me having a couple of the marines left and the ultramarine player having 2 reasonably fully tactical squads and terminator squads.

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 09:21:14 AM »
You're going to be consistently outnumbered when playing Chaos.  CSM pay a lot of points for not a lot of models and you're trying to fit a Decurion at a low points cost so having to pay for tax units is a hit.  What did you find not pulling their weight?  What did you wish you had but didn't?  What did your opponent bring that seemed like it was walking through what you had or just wouldn't go down?

Offline strawberry fist

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 12:03:22 PM »
opponent-
-centurions- grav
-terminators deep striking laying waste to tanks

went badly-
-vindicator scattering so missing every turn or hitting one or two marines
-terminator lord and 4 terminator bodyguard who killed a tank and then all died to bolter fire in his next turn

went well
-4 remaining tactical marines that held a captain and his cataphractii body guard in combat killing all the term bodyguard and awesome feel no pain rolling to keep them in the fight :)

wish I had
-possibly swap the raptors for bikers
-adding a landraider

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 07:08:58 PM »
Grav is going to do serious work against and sadly there's nothing you can do about that.  Bypassing your added toughness with AP2, you have to hit them at long range or with the Vindicator and that's just not always possible.  Scatters happen but I think you should stick to the attempt.  When Vindicators work, they fill in a wide gap in the CSM Codex.

Terminator Lords suffer from not having good deliveries in CSM.  A Land Raider might be your only choice but that bumps that one unit to over 500pts alone.  That's a hard one to swing at any point level.  It's still fluffy, but it's rough because of what you have to sacrifice elsewhere.  Usually, because I also run a Land Raider, I'll sacrifice a basic CSM squad and make them bog standard minimum squad, leave them at an Objective and just forget about their existence.  Leaves some points for the Raider and unit inside it.  But you'll have to bump up to 1850 for that, or go CAD with Cultists as Troops and a lot of trimming on decent units.

Bikes are without a doubt better than Raptors, just less fluffy.  If you make that move, having T6 bikers is a pure gameplay direction.  This can also free your CSM squad from needing their Melta.  I'd consider Plasma instead for the basic squads, make use of that FNP and give Terminators something to worry about.  But on the other hand, the Bikes also have FNP and might benefit just as much from the Plasma.  I'm running Melta because that's what I'm used to, but Plasma is a good move either way if you're comfortable with your anti-tank as it is.

Offline strawberry fist

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 02:12:22 PM »
from what I've read, melta is a lot more fluffy for Death guard.

If I was to swap out a predator for a land raider I would only need to find 115p from somewhere to pump into it and then the war-smith has more of a purpose as he can fix it on the move and curse other vehicles as he is cruising around, or I could run chosen instead?

the centurians and transports are targets number 1 and 2 its just the they didn't die to efficiently :/

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Loyalist Death Guard (Iron Hands chapter tactics)
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 02:40:48 PM »
I haven't tried Death Guard Chosen, I use Slannesh Chosen loaded with power weapons, so I'm not wholly sure how that would go.  There's actually a few interactions there I've just never tried, so I'm not sure how they'd perform.  Issue number one is the Transport Capacity of a Land Raider.  You'd be down to Terminator Lord, three Terminators and a Warpsmith and then be full.  Chosen are smaller physically, but as a unit they end up more expensive to survive the same and deal the same damage.

I do agree though of Melta being fluffier, but there's plenty of cases of plasma in the hands of Nurgle units, though it's usually depicted as closer to goo guns than fiery plasma.  Chemical weapons are also popular in Death Guard but I don't think there's a good Codex based representation there.  I think that's just out of Forge World and won't help you here.  From a gameplay point of view, if Terminators are giving you trouble, having your swift units be able to harass them and Centurians is a good move.  And we can't forget how valuable Jink is against Grav.